Episode Transcript

Michael Vilardo (00:12–01:03):
Welcome back to another episode of On the Subject. I’m your host. Michael Vilardo, co-founder and CEO of Subject, Subject.com, and Subject.ai just launched. Please find us there as well, and we have a very special episode today.

This is our first three-person episode, we’ve never done more than two, and so I have my handful today. But I’m extremely lucky and indebted to two incredible leaders and incredible educators that have helped so many students with and without Subject at Tustin Unified. Diana Gebe and Ali Del Castillo. Thank you so much for joining us on the subject today. Thank you for your time.

So the biggest thing that we always love to leave with at Subject is gratitude. Thank you first off for everything you’ve done for your students throughout the year. We’re so appreciative. We say teachers and coaches are the heroes of society.

But what we want to really learn from you is, you know, why do you want to do education? Why do you want to help kids?

Diana Gebe (01:03–01:20):
Sure, I was the kid who, when I was in first grade, wanted to pretend to grade papers.

Being a teacher was always the job, it was always going to be the career, it was always the passion. So that’s where it led me and here I am, 22 years later.

Ali Del Castillo (01:20–01:49):
Similar to Diana, I would line up my stuffed animals and teach them a lesson, but my younger sister has special needs. So, initially, my goal was to be a special education teacher because I really saw how passionate my mom was about teaching my sister the life skills and the just foundational elements of education. And just about being a learner. But once I started going to school and learning, I fell in love with reading and writing and the English language.

So then I became a high school English teacher.

Michael Vilardo (01:49–02:10):
I love that, thank you so much. Since we have the three-person podcast today, we can actually make it like some of our favorite podcasts, where it’s a true collaborative conversation. And so, you know, what do we want to see out of education?

How do we get education where we want it to be? In 2035? It’s 2025 already. Isn’t that crazy to say out loud yes? What should education look like in 2035?

What would you love to see happen?

Diana Gebe (02:10–02:25):
I think we are shifting our trend a little bit. Focusing back on the skills-based education piece that I think many of us crave. So that we want to see our students take the skills that they know and apply them to a variety of content areas.

Michael Vilardo (02:25–02:36):
And what does skills-based education mean for some of our novice listeners out there? What does that mean? And what has it traditionally not been in education?

Diana Gebe (02:36–02:44):
So what it isn’t is memorizing dates from a war, reading a novel from front to back, and being able to, like, describe a character.

Ali Del Castillo (02:44–02:47):
Yeah, I never really used 1984 today.

Michael Vilardo (02:47–02:49):
But if you were to have read 1984…

Diana Gebe (02:49–02:52):
Which I did. Sophomore year of high school.

Diana Gebe (02:52–03:25):
Yep, everyone does. We are very rooted in tradition and education in many ways. But if you were to have read 1984 through a skills-based lens, you would have focused on character analysis, you would have focused on the art of the writing, probably practiced to write the same way that the author did. You probably would have traced the development of the character and really analyzed decision making and things like that. So really teaching our kids the critical skills that they need to read between the lines and read beyond the lines so that they can apply those skills to their life. Whether it’s in math and history, the lessons we learn from history or math.

Michael Vilardo (03:25–03:30):
So focusing on the learning more than necessarily the grading.

Ali Del Castillo (03:30–03:32):
Absolutely, very much so.

Ali Del Castillo (03:32–04:28):
And I think to add to that making it about the kids again. I think, like you said, teachers are so rooted in the tradition and what I’ve always done.

But times aren’t what they were. So we need to refocus it on who is sitting in front of us, not who was sitting in front of us 10 years ago. And giving access to all of the kids sitting in front of us. I come from a special ed background. So for me, it’s important that all kids have access and can succeed and can find the self-confidence to believe in themselves because they can.

Now working with Credit Recovery and Initial Credit Academy. So our newcomers or students who have failed, they all need to have access. They all need to feel that success, and they all need to have the ability to achieve what they truly can. Given that where we are now, and not, like I said, where we’ve been.

Michael Vilardo (04:28–04:39):
Well, so let’s talk about that. You said 22 years classroom, what do you think the biggest difference is from students?

What was that in 2003 when you started? Or 2002?

Diana Gebe (04:39–04:40):
Yes, 2003.

Michael Vilardo (04:40–04:46):
So a student in 2003 versus a student in 2025.

What’s the biggest difference that you’ve noticed?

Ali Del Castillo (04:46–05:25):
Technology. Yeah, I mean, obviously.

There wasn’t even the iPhone back then. Uber wasn’t around.

There was nothing, I think I probably had a Nokia.

And it’s now every kid has some sort of a device in their hand. We are a one-to-one district, so already kids have a device in their hand. Be it an iPad or a Chromebook, they all have cell phones, many of them have watches.

It’s just at their fingertips, and that’s what they know. 22 years ago, a one-to-one device like that would have just blown everybody’s mind. You can have a computer on your desk in a classroom.

Michael Vilardo (05:25–05:28):
Like one computer lab per school back then.

Diana Gebe (05:28–05:28):
Absolutely.

Ali Del Castillo (05:29–05:31):
And you maybe went to it once a week.

Diana Gebe (05:31–05:43):
And so I think our kids have changed, our times have changed, and until we as teachers and educators change with them, we’re always going to be behind.

Michael Vilardo (05:43–05:58):
I completely agree. So when we think about education and your incredible lens as educators, and also working with others that you both are in leadership roles, how can we better empathize and empower our teachers to be more successful?

Diana Gebe (05:58–06:23):
We are lucky in that we get to work with both students and teachers and give a professional development. And the teachers that we work with, I mean, teachers everywhere, they were always awesome kids in class.

Or maybe it was the kid that wasn’t awesome in class and then came back because they wanted to change a trend, but I think the thing that is missing, and if you crack the code, let us know.

Michael Vilardo (06:21–06:23):
Working on it every day.

Ali Del Castillo (06:23–06:56):
Because we think it’s missing with students, too. A little bit of academic confidence that’s missing in students could be lacking in some teachers in terms of professional confidence.

We went through school one way and we’re recreating that experience, and it’s not necessarily benefiting the students in front of us because we’re so rooted in the way things were. So I think the thing I would say that we would need is to help teachers build their professional confidence. To just try, and it’s okay. If something doesn’t work out, teach a kid to work through something.

Teach a kid to ask questions as to why something didn’t work, and don’t be afraid to try something new.

Diana Gebe (06:56–07:11):
And be vulnerable themselves. If a teacher is showing vulnerability in who they really are. And I don’t have all the answers, but we can figure it out together. I think you’re going to engage a student and get a student to trust you to also be vulnerable.

Michael Vilardo (07:13–07:57):
Vulnerable and authenticity is so empowering and attractive. And one thing that I always love to learn from educators like yourself is, how do we create more of that culture of what you mentioned? Like the willingness to make mistakes. You know, so much of education… a student fails an exam and they feel like a failure. But if they play a video game and they miss out on a level, they try again. And same with teachers, they get penalized so hard if they make a mistake. How do we flip that and reward innovation? Mistakes are okay because they’re close to that next step of really changing.

Diana Gebe (07:59–08:19):
Allowing kids to take those risks. I have a first grader and her first grade teacher is all about talking about risks. So now my daughter will come home and be like, “Guess what I did today? I took a risk.”

Did you fail the first time? “Yes, but then I did it again.” So I think it’s starting at a young age and letting it be okay. It’s okay to fail.

Michael Vilardo (08:19–08:21):
It’s so okay, yeah. How do you get better, right?

Ali Del Castillo (08:21–08:52):
I think as educators, we want everything to be great and perfect. We create a lot of the pressure ourselves—to make sure our kids pass, that they meet benchmarks, etc. We invent that a lot of the time. So the more instructional leaders create space to try new things, and recognize those who take risks—even when it’s messy—the more innovation we’ll see.

Diana Gebe (08:52–08:54):
It’s okay for it to be messy.

Ali Del Castillo (08:54–09:11):
It is, it totally is. And I love that attitude. One piece we always love to close the podcast with is gratitude. We’re so thankful for everything you’ve done in education. What teacher or student would you want to shout out and thank on the mic to close this out?

Michael Vilardo (09:17–09:19):
Do you have one? I have so many.

Ali Del Castillo (09:19–09:29):
It’s tough to nail it down to just one. Whatever feels right—go ahead and give them a shout out.

Diana Gebe (09:33–09:50):
This is totally against the rules, but I can’t name just one. I’ve learned so much from every single student I’ve ever had. It’s an honor to be trusted by them.

Ali Del Castillo (09:50–10:16):
I’ll echo that. Any student who trusted me—whether it was with their writing, their life, their voice—I’m honored I got to play that role. And I’m also thankful for the teachers who helped me be myself.

Michael Vilardo (10:16–10:41):
That was really beautiful. You can tell how selfless and thoughtful you both are. We’re so grateful. Please like, comment, subscribe on Spotify and YouTube to hear more from amazing educators. Thank you so much for your time today.

Diana & Ali (10:41–10:42):
Thank you, we appreciate it.